Tagged: Warm up
June 11, 2020 at 4:27 pm #417
If your room is 10f long – and SL are 5f from front wall and your seat is 6-6.5f from speakers than your room should be 11+ feet long ?
DJune 11, 2020 at 4:31 pm #418TWBModerator
I too have a pair of the 545’s, in my case the Ultimates, in a small room. In regards to imaging, placement is everything. You need to experiment until you find what’s best for your room. Acoustic room treatments should also be considered.
In the case of the Pass Lab XA.60.8 amps, in my country system, with the U-1PX, they do a very satisfactory job. The 60.8’s definitely did not have enough power in my city system with the 545’s, but the X-260.8’s drive them very well.
Nearly twenty years ago I was a Wolcott dealer and loved how they drove Sound Labs. But when Henry Wolcott aged out, it became almost impossible to get them repaired. He held the schematics tightly, and very few techs knew how to trouble shoot them. I also owned JC-1’s, but found them to be too neutral for my taste.June 11, 2020 at 4:36 pm #419
My room is actually 10.5 ft long and my distance from the SLs is at an angle since I am sitting in the center. I am wondering if I am too close to the speakers?
Has anyone tried the sound absorbers that SL is selling? Are they effective?June 11, 2020 at 4:37 pm #420yoshiParticipant
Toe-in angle is critical in a small room. Symmetry and Equal distances from back and side walls must be achieved for a balanced sound field. A quarter in matters…
What are your dimensions?
As well, in near field listening, equal optimal bias on your panels is very important. I found that more toe in works, and careful bias adjustment for centering image provides a greater soundstage presentation.
I have a similar size panel in a smaller room setting and these adjustments were important to achieve best performance. Let your ears determine guide the optimum adjustments.
KenJune 11, 2020 at 4:40 pm #421TWBModerator
In my city system I utilize 4 Stillpoint Apertures to good effect, two on the sidewalls and 2 on the front wall between the speakers.June 11, 2020 at 4:41 pm #422
TWB – excellent post . For SL lovers: The bigger panels are much easier to drive than smaller ones. So it means you need less power to run U/M/A-1 than small U/M/A-545! Yes, it is opposite from box speakers …
DJune 11, 2020 at 4:42 pm #423
Width of the room is 9 ft and 10.5 ft long. My ears are about 1 ft from the back wall.June 11, 2020 at 5:00 pm #424
So your room is 10f long. It is short – there no doubt about it ! On other side – nothing wrong with using SL in near-field position ! I luv it !
On your place I would go 3F from front wall, you will sit 3F from speakers and you will have 3F behind!
For SL lovers:
Sidewall distance from wall to speakers meaning nothing
About toe in:
I found that middle of the speakers should face your shoulder on your listening chair. More toe in – more highs, more dynamics but narrow soundstage .. More out – wider soundstage, loss of focus
How you gonna do it ? In dark , take flashlight and put it on the middle of your head – look at speakers and be sure you see reflection from the myler to be symmetric to your position.
Also! Do not spread SL too far apart! You will loose bass and dynamics ! Even if they are close to each other – they should make soundstage wall to wall!
I told that Joe Cohen when he exhibit his amazing cables with SL at California show I think year or two ago when he complained that they could not get bass from SL .. IMO SL were to far apart ..
DJune 11, 2020 at 6:29 pm #425
Wow. Sit 3 ft from speakers? I would be closer to speakers than speakers are to themselves.June 11, 2020 at 6:43 pm #426
Do not worry – you can sit as close as the soundstage start to be too high. You do not have choice ! You must have space behind you ! Position yourself that speakers have space behind them and that there is space behind you .. Well..difficult with 10f size of room …
Btw I listen SL where owner was sitting like 3F from them and had huge space behind him. I was in the middle of the orchestra … amazing sound .. Different rooms, different choices…
DJune 11, 2020 at 7:26 pm #427MikeBParticipant
chungjh: Because Soundlabs are a line source, being close to the side walls shouldn’t be an issue.
I previously had my M1PX’s within a foot of the sidewalls in my 14-1/2 foot wide room with no center image issues.
Your placement specs seem to be well within reason.
Accurate toe-in should provide a very solid center image, as long as your listening chair is exactly between both speakers. If you haven’t, measure one speaker’s placement — corners of each speaker to the wall you say is “about 5 ft” behind the speakers — and adjust the other speaker’s to those dimensions, to make sure both are as exactly placed the same as possible.
Moving further back or closer shouldn’t affect the center image as long as your listening chair (& head) is Centered Exactly between the speakers.
It might be worth a shot to play a mono source to more accurately check center imaging, presuming both speakers are in-phase.
One speaker biased different than the other could affect center image. If you have a test CD with a center output individually for both right and left channel, and a decibel meter, you could check one speaker’s level against the other’s and adjust the bias accordingly. However, if you biased both speakers as the manual explains, the difference should be minimal. For the most part, bias should only need to be slightly tweaked. My bias pot’s positions have always been very close to each other’s — if one is at 12 o’clock, the other has always been very, very close to that. Thus, I wouldn’t expect large differences between one speaker’s bias pot’s position and the other, unless something is amiss with the speakers, pre-amp, amp, or very unlikely, perhaps the cables. -MikeJune 11, 2020 at 9:10 pm #428
Thanks everyone. I can’t sound stage each player’s position very clearly but it is well centered in that the main singer comes from the center. It is possible that the recording engineer for most of my tracks on Tidal playlist didn’t do a good job. Does anyone in this forum have Tidal tracks that should give clear instrument separation spatially? Like you are walking in between instruments.November 25, 2020 at 1:54 pm #579
I am in the market for a new amp for my M545. I had Pass Labs X250.5 for a while and I upgraded this year to X250.8. Now I just sold my X250.8 because I want to try a tube amp. In my tiny room (9 x 11 ft), X250.5 was great; so I thought X250.8 would be even better. Nope. While it had much more power, it didn’t sound as good as X250.5. But, in my room, where I don’t play very loud, it took about 6 hours of playing to sound GREAT. I have BAT Rex2 tube preamp (300 W heat, but incredible sound), so I don’t want to use up 6 hrs of tube time just for warming up.Since tube amps don’t take more than one hour of warm up, I chose to go with a tube amp. I am considering Atma S MA1, but it generates 1000 W of heat just idling. My X250.8 generated 450 W idling and it was quite hot. I don’t know how you guys with AS gears handle the heat.Some people recommended LTA ZOTL40. I can get used Conrad Johnson amps pretty easily. Any recommendations? I want something reliable and hassle-free.November 25, 2020 at 2:28 pm #580supportmacParticipant
I use MA-1 Mk 3.3 with Soundlab A3. I do not find the heat from MA-1 excessive. Yes there are a lot of tubes there, but they do not heat so much. Since I started to listen music on tube amplifiers, I’m having troubles to listen solid state. Atma Sphere amplifiers will give a very smooth and relaxed sound to your stats. Go for it ! And upgrade to 3.3 ! It’s worth every cent.November 25, 2020 at 2:32 pm #581
What is the size of your room? My room is only 9 x 11 and may be more sensitive to heat. I have heard that AS amps could have reliability issues. I don’t know if this was 3.2 version.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.