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  • MikeB
    Participant

      <“Thank you for posting these two videos. Excellent insight.
      Thank you, Dr. West and Company.”>

      Indeed!!

      MikeB
      Participant

        As they’re relatively comparable in price, it would be informative to hear from anyone who has heard the Sanders ESL Mark II ($6k) (&/or Sanders Magtech $7k) with a pair of Benchmark AHB2’s ($7k/pair) (and of course when paired with SoundLabs).

        in reply to: Gaia 2 Isolation feet, with spikes #1714
        MikeB
        Participant

          Regarding thread sizing and footers in general, Dr. West provided the following information January, 2020, for my new Majestic 845PX’s:

          The speakers each use 5 footers, and the mounting thread is 1/4-20. The length is 1″.

          We use carpet glides as standard since it makes moving the speakers easier. There are quite a few footers available on the market and it’s best in my opinion that customers research what they feel works best for them.

          Spikes have a universal appeal from an appearance
          standpoint, and we use them on our Ultimate series, but they have no acoustical advantage due to the fact that the vibrantional
          energy density of the speakers is relatively low and is distributed over a larger area. In contrast, high-intensity small-box speakers would benefit using spikes since it would relieve the enclosure of some of the vibrational energy.

          In your situation wherein the floor is concrete with a covering of carpet, I personally would recommend the carpet glides from a functional standpoint, but then there’s an aesthetic factor that can’t be denied which might suggest a different footer design. Hope this helps.

          in reply to: Gaia 2 Isolation feet, with spikes #1709
          MikeB
          Participant

            I use Herbie’s Audio Lab Giant Threaded Stud Gliders on my 845PX’s Herbie’s Audio Giant (vs standard) Threaded Stud Gliders

            Whether they added an improvement — or perhaps otherwise — I don’t know, because I didn’t do a before and after trial.

            However, For their fairly modest price and the fact they aid moving/sliding the speakers, they seemed to be worth a shot.

            in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1693
            MikeB
            Participant

              @bouncehit,
              Your experience with various Sound Lab’s and amplifiers and amplifier types is extensive. It’s great that you’ve found a Class D amp that marries favorably with your U1/PX’s, when compared with your previous experiences.

              From those amps you listed and then arriving at the VTV’s and never hearing the “ESL’s…sound like this” is quite a testament.

              The VTV’s pros seem to be “grip” and “dynamics”. How are other factors like soundstage, imaging, harmonics etc? Are there any areas that the VTV’s don’t do as well as you would like – i.e., are there any sonic areas that could be a bit better, when compared to your previous amp trials and experiences?

              Thanks for citing the specific amps you settled upon, the: “VTV’s are the N2K monoblocks with VTV custom input buffer and Weiss op-amps”. And by all means, if you have additional noteworthy experiences (pro & con) with the VTV’s or other amps, letting the gang here know of them, would be appreciated.

              BTW, do your U1/PX’s have the latest Consummate transformers/backplates, or the previous ones?

              in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1688
              MikeB
              Participant

                @bouncehit: Congrats on your new amplifier find.

                There are lots of VTV Hypex versions on VTV’s website. Which one (if stereo), or ones (if mono) are you using? Did you stick with what you originally received, or after the “dialing-in”, did you stick with that configuration — i.e., exactly what amplifier, and op amp configuration is working for you?

                Have you compared your SoundLab Ultimate PX’s and the VTV’s with other solid state push-pull, or Class A amps, or Tube amps? If so, it would be beneficial if you were to cite and discuss your comparative experiences. Thanks, -Mike

                in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1676
                MikeB
                Participant

                  @stakkallapelli: Thanks for your Class “D” amp experience. Although you didn’t mention the amp’s manufacturer, it would be quite advantageous if you were to do so.

                  Class “D” for its pluses (low: weight, heat, cost, power usage etc.) is intriguing. It would be an important find, if a Class “D” amp could be found that could complete with other highly revered amp types being used with SoundLabs, especially if the cost were considerably less. As such, additional pro/con experiences with various Class “D” amps & SoundLabs is greatly appreciated.

                  In the interim however (especially at their price), it seems that a pair of Benchmark ABH-2’s — that “combine class-AB, and class-H topologies” — is a very good SoundLab choice. This is based on what other’s have said of their experiences and about Dr. West’s apparent Benchmark amp comments. Additionaly, @achipo’s very positive experiences with his Benchmark, vs Atma-sphere amp combo, adds another tick in the Benchmark column, if one prefers solid state rather than tubes.

                  in reply to: Safely modding #1662
                  MikeB
                  Participant

                    For something different than my two previous black pairs, I asked for a brown option. I was sent a few different fabric color/style choices and ended up going with what is pictured.

                    As a side note, I too thought that the proverbial Guilford of Maine fabrics would not be sufficiently stretchy and that there was a reason why spandex was seemingly SoundLab’s preferred acoustic fabric of choice.

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                    in reply to: What is behind your Sound Labs? #1608
                    MikeB
                    Participant

                      SoundLab Dealer and dipole designer/manufacturer, Duke LeJeune, posted the following in an Audiogon thread titled: “Dipole speakers, subwoofers and that rear wall”

                      “The ear does not perceive comb filter effects from reflections the same way a microphone registers them, so in general reflections are far more benign than they look “on paper”.” “But if reflections arrive too early, they still can be detrimental to clarity.” “According to acoustic and psychoacoustic researcher David Griesinger, ten milliseconds of essentially reflection-free time is sufficient.”

                      “Sound travels approximately one foot per millisecond, so the implication of Griesnger’s finding is that ideally we’d want to position dipole speakers about five feet out from the front wall, which would result in a backwave reflection path length of ten feet, and a delay of about ten milliseconds.”

                      “In my experience, if dipoles (or bipoles) are placed less than 3 feet from the wall behind them, aggressively treating the backwave is usually a good idea.” “This can be absorption or diffusion or re-directing the reflection away from the listening area.”

                      “At distances between 3 and 5 feet it’s more of a judgment call as to whether or not you need to treat the backwave.” “Imo in general re-directing the reflection and/or diffusion are preferable to absorption.”

                      My experience with two different rooms and 3-different pairs of SoundLabs, correlates with Duke’s recommendations.

                      With my Majestic 845’s pulled out into the room approx. 7′, the 6′ x 3′ free standing sound absorption panels I tried on the wall behind the speakers, removed the liveliness from the sound. Obviously, more than anything else, the room dictates what should, or should not be done.

                      I do have a partial wall of drapes between/behind my SoundLabs (see picture). However, the drapes were installed for room darkening, but they may also have a sonic effect.

                      A comment was made about a bookcase and books, for a similar result, I’ve also seen a bookcase housing 500 to over 1,000 vinyl albums, placed between and behind a pair of A1 SoundLabs.

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                      in reply to: Sound Lab ESL and power #1512
                      MikeB
                      Participant

                        It is said that lightening never strikes the same place twice. That was proven incorrect at our home. We had a 70’ Sycamore tree that was nailed by lightening. The next year it was dying, so we had a tree trimmer out, who tied a ribbon around the tree, marking it for removal. Between then and the removal date (a couple days later), the tree was struck again. The marking ribbon around the tree evaporated. Plus, it wasn’t like the Sycamore was a lone tall tree. Surrounding it, were dozens of equally tall trees.

                        The initial lightning strike to the Sycamore, did little damage. Other than a PC’s Ethernet card, nothing else was harmed.

                        With the 2nd. strike to it, we weren’t so lucky! The strike took out many items, including blowing an irrigation controller off of the garage wall. Not the least of those items, was a custom $10K DAC and a $5K pre-pro. Our insurance paid it all (of course, minus our deductible). The payment process was fairly painless and the angst was minimal. Our homeowners insurance didn’t have a rider for our expensive audio equipment, because none was needed. I’ve found that to be the case here in the U.S. If one has a decent homeowners policy that pays for the home’s value, plus the home’s possessions, all audio equipment — including custom and expensive audio components — are covered as long as replacement cost doesn’t exceed the possession maximum amount.

                        Thus, I’m not too terribly concerned by the frequent thunder storms we have here in the Midwest. And for me and our experiences, leaving equipment plugged-in (on or off), isn’t a worry regarding power surges of the severe lightening kind.

                        in reply to: Sound Lab ESL and power #1507
                        MikeB
                        Participant

                          Knowing Dr. West and his attention to detail, I would assume that he would install a switch or an automatic on/off (based on a signal), if SoundLab’s longevity were effected by leaving them fully powered 100% of the time as he instructs.

                          Moreover, I’m sure that Dr. West’s understands the capabilities and durabilities of his speakers and that he would not want their premature failure any more than we do.

                          So, with that said, I’ve been a SoundLab owner for over 20-years and have left them powered the entire time without detrimental effects. However even still, I recognize that I suffer from audiophile nervosa and I must admit that leaving my speakers powered, has posed a tad bit of a concern from time to time, especially in the early years of my ownership.

                          in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1439
                          MikeB
                          Participant

                            I’ve owned 3-SoundLab pairs, obviously at different times.

                            Frist, I had Millennium-1’s and then M1-PX’s with the consummate backplates and currently, Majestic 845’s.

                            I drove my original Millennium-1’s with a Mark Levinson 336 stereo amplifier. At that time and on the old SLOG forum, many were using tube amps, especially Wolcott’s and Atma-sphere’s. Thus, I wanted to try a tube amp and see what all the fuss was about.

                            A local dealer had a used pair of CAT (Convergent Audio Technology) JL1 monoblocks – 100W/Ch. Those weighed in at just under 400lbs. Along with the CAT’s, the dealer had an audition pair of Parasound Halo JC1 monoblocks. I took both the CAT’s and Parasound’s home. I first inserted the Parasound’s. At less cost than my Levinson, the JC1’s were very similar to the Levinson 336. When I inserted the CAT’s, I was immediately bowled over. The CAT’s controlled the SoundLabs unlike the two solid state amps. Bass was better, SoundLab’s superb midrange was even better and the treble was great. I then thought what am I missing? The answer was nothing was missing! Everything I value was better, soundstage, harmonics, imaging, drive and control etc.

                            A few years later, I had the opportunity to obtain CAT JL3’s with double the output tubes and 50 more watts/channel than my original JL1 CAT’s. They were better with my then Millennium SoundLabs in terms of a marginal higher output. But the overall sound was very similar between the 2-amps. With PX panels and the newest backplate’s, I’m sure JL1’s would now be sufficient.

                            However, after developing significant spine and hip issues, the CAT’s became problematic. Because CAT’s owner Ken Stevens strives for utmost excellence, he chose to forego using actual fuses. Instead, he installed sacrificial resistors at each tube socket – 16 for the JL1’s and 32 for the JL3’s. I had several resistors blow while I owned the CAT’s. Each time, the 190lb. amps had to be flipped over on their tops and their bottom plate’s many screws removed. The blown resistor then needed to be de-soldered and a new one re-soldered. Not a terrible process for someone with a soldering iron and the physical capabilities to perform the function. But the process became one I could no longer perform.

                            At 37lbs. each, robust and fused, I thought that the Atma-sphere MA1’s may be a good alternative to the CAT’s. My local dealer brought the MA1’s out for an in-home audition, along with Levinson and Pass Labs amps. The Pass was an A/B amp, at I believe 250-watts. Sonically, it wasn’t at all what I was used to. The Levinson was also around 250-watts and its protection circuits kicked-in. So, I didn’t get to hear much of it. But when the Atma-sphere’s were inserted, I had reproduction similar to my CAT’s. They may have a bit less bass wise, but they had a bit more detail (which was good) than the CAT’s. But the harmonics, imagining, soundstage and control were similar to the CAT’s. Hence, I chose to buy a new pair of MA1’s. I had no more sacrificial resistor concerns and no worries about repairing, lifting and moving 190lb. amplifiers. To the CAT’s credit however, much of the 190lbs. is due to CAT’s 55lb. proprietary transformers. My belief is that CAT push/pull amps (with a midrange SET purity) owe much of their superb capabilities to their proprietary transformers. As such, CAT’s are a supreme match for SoundLabs. And as you can tell, I hated to part with them. They’re that good with SoundLabs and I understand with many other speakers. In fact, I would imagine that CAT’s newer JL5 stereo amps would be a great match with S/L’s.

                            With that said, many solid-state amplifiers of sufficient power will drive the SoundLabs well. I thought my Levinson and then the Parasound Halo’s did well, until I heard the CAT’s and tubes. At that point, everything was better. Bass was better and harmonics were better and as such, symphonic instruments sounded more like the real thing. Thus, with the CAT’s and Atma-sphere’s, I prefer tubes. If I never heard the difference, I would have been quite satisfied with the solid-state amplifiers I owned and tried. However, if you have a chance to audition CAT’s or Atma-sphere’s, you may well hear the plusses that prompted me to stick with these tube amplifiers.

                            As a matter of fact, because of my physical limitations which even impact tube changing and rolling, I would like to find solid state amps that would equal the Atma-sphere’s. Forum member “ACHiPo” does own Atma-sphere’s and Benchmarks. He has made a comparison between the two.

                            However, I would love to hear from other folks who have had the opportunity to compare Atma-sphere’s with for example: Pass A/B and Class A amps as well as other solid-state Class A/B, D & H amps.

                            Some who run their system many hours per day, may choose solid state because of tube replacement issues. And although heat is not a problem with my Midwest, basement audio room, I can understand why some may have chosen solid state. But of supreme importance to me is not heat or tube maintenance, but the end result – i.e., from a purely sonic perspective, what solid-state amp will equal CAT or Atma-sphere tubes? If I move to solid state amps, I would like to do so laterally sound wise and not regret the move.

                            in reply to: Sound Lab ESL and room treatments #1304
                            MikeB
                            Participant

                              FWIW, I had some 6’High x 3’Wide x 12″Thick DIY free standing fiberglass-filled absorption panels behind my Majestic 845PX Soundlabs. I tried the panels on the wall directly behind the S/L’s, then across the corner and lastly on the side wall behind them. In every area, they deadened things too much for my taste and I removed them.

                              I built the panels many years ago, based on a Jon Risch design from the AudioAsylum Tweakers Forum. The S/L’s are pulled out approx. 7′ into the room and fairly thick, room darkening drapes are behind the speakers, essentially covering the space between both speakers.

                              in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1220
                              MikeB
                              Participant

                                Regarding my last post, I erroneously inferred and believed that the Benchmark AHB-2 was a Class D amp, when it isn’t. In fact, Benchmark’s specs state it: “combines class-AB, and class-H topologies, using a feed-forward error correction system” (https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-ahb2-power-amplifier). And ACHiPo (Evan), is using two AHB-2’s that are in bridged mode to output enough power for his SoundLabs. -Mike

                                in reply to: Class D for Sound Lab Speakers? #1219
                                MikeB
                                Participant

                                  Although I have had personal communications with ACHiPo about Class D amps and his experience with the Benchmark AHB-2’s, I wanted to thank him here, for bringing Class D amps to the SLOG gang’s attention.

                                  SoundLab’s and Class D amplifiers used together, hadn’t entered my mind until this thread. Although they have been around for years, for the cost, power consumption and weight, Class D amplifiers seem to now have entered into the high-end world with a fairly recent and big splash.

                                  If anyone has any experiences using Class D amps with SoundLab’s, please let the group know.

                                  Because of an electrostatic speaker’s amplification needs vs cones and domes, amplifiers have always been a hot discussion topic amongst us SoundLab owners. As such, I always appreciate amplifier discussions. This is especially true regarding everyone’s personal experiences with different amplifier brands, types, power-output etc. So, by all means give us all a shout-out regarding your amp experiences and comparisons, good bad, or otherwise…

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