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I am a long-time Sound Lab speaker owner and haven’t checked for this site for a while.
Personally, I don’t like Class D amps. Its sound is dry and lacks liquidity. I understand today’s Class D amp may not be the same as it was. A while ago, tried a Spectron Musician III to drive my Majestic 945 alone and disliked the sound. Finally, I biamped the Majestic 945. The Spectron Musician drives the bass and a pair of Wolcott P400 for the high/mid. It is the right mixture for me.
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@mossimo
The Benchmark AHB2 amps are very good, especially for the money and in hot weather! I still preferred the MA1s by a small margin with my old front end and expect the difference to be even bigger with the new Taiko Extreme server and Technics SP10R and Kuzma tonearm.The Benchmark dynamics are superior to the AtmaSphere, but the midrange liquidity, air, and 3 dimensionality of the AtmaSpheres are slightly superior to the Benchmarks.
Evan -
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Regarding my last post, I erroneously inferred and believed that the Benchmark AHB-2 was a Class D amp, when it isn’t. In fact, Benchmark’s specs state it: “combines class-AB, and class-H topologies, using a feed-forward error correction system” (https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-ahb2-power-amplifier). And ACHiPo (Evan), is using two AHB-2’s that are in bridged mode to output enough power for his SoundLabs. -Mike
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Although I have had personal communications with ACHiPo about Class D amps and his experience with the Benchmark AHB-2’s, I wanted to thank him here, for bringing Class D amps to the SLOG gang’s attention.
SoundLab’s and Class D amplifiers used together, hadn’t entered my mind until this thread. Although they have been around for years, for the cost, power consumption and weight, Class D amplifiers seem to now have entered into the high-end world with a fairly recent and big splash.
If anyone has any experiences using Class D amps with SoundLab’s, please let the group know.
Because of an electrostatic speaker’s amplification needs vs cones and domes, amplifiers have always been a hot discussion topic amongst us SoundLab owners. As such, I always appreciate amplifier discussions. This is especially true regarding everyone’s personal experiences with different amplifier brands, types, power-output etc. So, by all means give us all a shout-out regarding your amp experiences and comparisons, good bad, or otherwise…
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Massimo,
Sorry I can’t comment on the Bel Canto amps other than to say I was convinced based on reviews to give it a try if I thought it would be a good match with the Sound Labs (I did not have them in my system nor have I heard them in another system). Let me know if you’re interested and I will PM you a link with the ad. The seller is in Michigan (not sure where you’re located?)Evan
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Well after toying with picking up a pair of used Bel Canto Ref600M class D amps, I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of Benchmark AHB2 amps. It’s not too clear what the topology is–Class H–but good words from Roger and myriad great reviews and a 30 day demo period got me over the hump.
I’ll post my impressions when I get them.
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Interesting development. I knew Ralph was working on a class D. Looks like it’s ready.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=180725.0;topicseen -
I drove my U-3’s (updated toroids and PX panels) with Wolcott mono blocks for years. They worked very well. Plenty of punch, great highs, open mids, wide and deep soundstage. Last year I replaced them with the PS Audio M1200 Class D monoblocks. The M1200’s were better in every category. The timbral accuracy of all instruments, attack/sustain/decay ,micro dynamics, and ambience retrieval were immediately noticeable improvements right out of the box. After 200+ hours, they still were getting better. Darren Meyers knows what he’s doing to make those ICE modules sing.
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I definitely read that review, but forgot about the Merrill amp reference. Thanks. I reread it, and think that might have been what planted the seed in my head that Class D could be a good match with Sound Labs.
I tried the W4S again after more break in and it still sounds good, just not as juicy and enveloping as the AtmaSpheres.
I’m hearing good things about Benchmark with Sound Labs, so may give them a shot down the road just out of curiosity.
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Guy’s I am surprised you missed this review of the Majestic 845PX in the May of 2014 edition of Enjoy The Music. Jules Coleman wrote the review and gave a thorough, interesting and glowing account of the speakers attributes.
But what was interesting is the amplifier that he settled on after trying a
Pass Labs A-250 which could not adequately drive the speaker. He chose the
Merrill Veritas Monoblocks which are Class D, produce 400 watts into 8 ohms
and had no trouble driving the big panels. The Veritas have a pretty good reputation in the Audio community and right now they are selling at very
reasonable prices used, they listed new at 12k.One thing of note, while writing the review and listening to music at the same time he did not want to turn his head and spoil the illusion that this was not live music but a reproduction as gloriously presented by the Sound Lab speaker. As owners we know what he was talking about.
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Ciao Massimo!
The Wyred4Sound amp is amazing for the price—I paid about $800 used for it a few years ago. It is detailed and powerful. It has a little more glare than my MA1s, and much less emotional delivery, but I could definitely live with it for the Summer months. I’m sure there are better Class D amps now—the W4S uses a Beolab ICE module amp with a custom input and power supply. Given its performance, however, I don’t think I’ll be trying the Benchmark unless I find a great deal.Evan
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Hi ACHiPo,
I am glad that your W4S ST500 can drive your new 645s!
Just like you, I am also looking for a second ‘summer amplifier’.
What do you think is a top tier Class D amp?
I would like to read more of your listening impressions regarding MA1s vs. ST500.Best regards
MassimoP.S.: I am considering this ‘top tier’ Wyred4Sound. Unfortunately no dealers in Vienna 🙁
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I received my Sound Lab speakers yesterday and got them set up today. I listened for several hours with AtmaSphere MA1s and things sounded quite good. I switched to my Wyred4Sound ST500 amp (250 wpc Class D), and things sound quite good–different, but good. The room is a LOT cooler. Will continue running the Class D whenever not critically listening to break in the speakers. Given the performance of this relatively modest Class D, I’m thinking a top tier Class D would sound pretty darned good on Sound Labs.
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Well, I have the Wyred4Sound Class D. I’ll likely use it to break in the Sound Labs. Will give it a listen, too, just to compare it to the MA-1s.
Meanwhile I’ve got my eyes peeled for a Benchmark or 2. So far the only used ones I’m finding are very close to new in pricing.
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ACHiPo said: “I also ordered the MA-1s.” “I’ll keep my eyes peeled for a used Benchmark or 2 as it might be nice to have a low-heat option to drive the SLs in the summer!”
I wasn’t going to say so, but now that you have, MA-1’s do indeed add some much welcomed warmth during my midwest winters. Because you already own the M-60’s, you have a clue. However, I can’t imagine the space heater warmth that the MA-2’s must emanate (grin). Then there are the MA-3’s. When firing them up, it must be campfire story and marshmallow roasting time 🙂
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Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier: interesting technology, great price! Thanks for heads-up and the link.
If someone tries one, especially ACHiPo in comparison to your Atma-sphere MA-1’s, please give us a shout out. The 100-watts would seem to be marginal and as such questionable. However, numbers can be misleading. Especially when comparing the more usual Class AB vs A circuits.
At any rate, hearing (particularly with SoundLabs) is believing! I rule nothing OUT, or for that matter IN based on specifications, technology, part types, topography, etc., without hearing. In our wacky hobby, I’ve been surprised both positively and negatively too many times to believe otherwise.
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Yes Tom’s city system. I was very impressed by the (big speaker-sized) diminutive 545s. They ran out of gas (bass flapping) but at SPLs much higher than I normally listen (or even comfortable). Tom’s room is quite a bit liver than mine, so I think the 645s will sound fantastic (at least I hope so!)
I also ordered the MA-1s. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for a used Benchmark or 2 as it might be nice to have a low-heat option to drive the SLs in the summer!
No new car for me for a few years!
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TWBs city system, i’m guessing?
I know lots of people like tube amps, and i would love to hear the highly acclaimed Atmaphere’s in my system. I haven’t really heard tubes that i preferred over SS, though i will admit to recently hearing Stax 009s through an LTA Z10e and it is the best i’ve heard an electrostatic headphone to date, this system also sounded excellent powering the original Abyss 1266, which is the first headphone that i heard that i thought sounded better than my Quad system at the time. I may even like the Z10e better than my diy Gilmore designed Dynahi. -
I’d like to hear them as well. Ultimately I decided to pull the trigger on AtmaSphere MA1s as I’ve grown accustomed to the AtmaSphere sound and from what I read they are an outstanding pairing with Sound Labs.
I heard 545s Sunday with Pass Labs 250.8s and they sounded very good. I’m hoping 645s driven by the MA1s will be at least as good in my room.
I have a spare 500WPC Wyred4Sound Class D stereo amp that I will use to break in the Sound Labs. I used it when I sent my M60s back to Ralph for refurb and it sounded really good on my Kefs. Not as good as the AtmaSpheres, but better than I expected from an $800 used amp.
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Update: Roger suggested I check out the Benchmark AHB amps and they have glowing reviews. I’ve found some positive statements on driving Martin Logan speakers, but nothing on Sound Lab. Has anyone heard or had experience with these amps on Sound Labs?
Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier -
There are some very good sounding Class D amps these days. I’m wondering how Class D amps would work with the electrostat load of the PX Sound Lab speakers?
There are lists of good and not-so-good amps for Sound Labs, but I haven’t seen anything that says what it is about an amp that makes it a good match for Sound Lab speakers? AtmaSphere OTLs seem to handle the impedance curve well, as do Pass Labs (and I’ve heard Boulder and probably Dartzeel and Jeff Rowland Class A/B as well?) What is it about those amps (other than adequate power) that makes them a good match?
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